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cvs commit - LogJam [entries|archive|friends|userinfo]
LogJam

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cvs commit [Dec. 23rd, 2002|12:20 pm]
LogJam
logjam
[evan]
I just committed the other major change that I'd like for LogJam 4.1, which I wrote before even the StructuredText stuff: a rearrangement of the metadata structure. I moved most of the options into the menus. I'm not sure if I like it, but it was worth trying at least once.

I'm posting here so if anyone takes a look at it they have a central place to comment.

(I'm especially unsure of the menu structure. Given any possible arrangement of top-level menus, such as "File" or "LogJam" or "Journal" or "Tools": Where does "Login" belong? Where does "Quit" belong? Where does "About" belong? Where does "Preferences" belong? Where do "New/Open/Save" belong? Where does "Submit" belong?)




(Also, the "entry format" bit will disappear in the future unless you've enabled structured text through the preferences.)
LinkReply

Comments:
[User Picture]From: __anti
2002-12-23 12:41 pm (UTC)
There really is a fixed structure to those items,
which should stay consistent over all apps.
(Unless you really have a unique intuitve and usefull way to do it better.)
File
- Login
- New/Open/Save
- Quit
Tools
- Preferences
Help
- About

There is nothing worse than having to _remember_ were it was "in this application".
Just put it into the default place.


Well,
if you want to go really overboard, put it into the config file
and make it customizeable...
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From: evan
2002-12-23 12:47 pm (UTC)
...that is the Windows standard. Macs do it differently, for example.
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[User Picture]From: abiku
2003-01-20 08:39 am (UTC)
This is an older topic, but I thought I'd chime in one last time...

Perhaps I am getting too used to OS X, but I've always found the whole Tools --> Preferences paradigm counter-intuitive. Mucking about in the program's preferences/options/settings/whatever is not a tool and is only accepted, in my opinion, because Microsoft forced people to get used to that placement by making it the default in one of the past iterations of IE. (5.0, I think?) It really should fall under the LogJam menu, I believe, as that's the most logical place to look for LogJam Settings.

Otherwise, I have no complaints about the window or menu layout in the current CVS version. Nice job.
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[User Picture]From: ntang
2002-12-23 01:16 pm (UTC)
Well, the answer is pretty easy, since it's a Gnome app. Stick to the Gnome Human Interface Guidelines:

http://developer.gnome.org/projects/gup/hig/1.0/menus.html#standard-menus

I think that answers basically all of your questions, and if not, at least it gets you a lot closer to the answers.
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From: piman
2002-12-23 01:28 pm (UTC)
Except it's not a GNOME app, it's a GTK app. :)
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[User Picture]From: ntang
2002-12-23 01:54 pm (UTC)

Re:

Well, ok, true, but there's a fine line between the two (IMHO), and using the Gnome interface guidelines even for a GTK app isn't a bad idea. The open source world could use a little consistency, and they've put a lot of effort into designing some consistent and reasonable standards.

So... s/Gnome/GTK/ in the first sentence and the rest of it stands, more or less.
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From: piman
2002-12-23 01:25 pm (UTC)
Okay, taking a shot at a good structure based on what I see in 4.0.1 -

LogJam
- Log In (two words, login is a noun)
- Quit
-------
- About LogJam

Don't have a "File" menu, please. 90% of the things in File are invariably unrelated to actual file management. LogJam shouldn't deal with files except as related to entries, so anything file-related belongs in the Entry menu.

If you ever have a manual or include links to LiveJournal's help page, move "About LogJam" to a "Help" menu along with those.

Entry
- New/Open/Save
----
- Entry settings here, as a set of checkboxes, not remembered (and probably shouldn't be configurable). Not a popout list, have them all inline (unless there's a lot more than I think).
----
- Post As (I'm assuming this is the "Journal" menu you have?), with a pop-out list

Tools
- Preferences (Or the name I like better, "Settings")
----
- Poll Creator
- Make Link
- Insert File
(That's the order I expect them to be used most, but if you have a different usage pattern, go for it. HTML escape should be handled by StructuredText now, right?)

Web Links

This gives you 4 (or 5, with Help) menus, all of which are mutually exclusive, none of which are deep, and only two of which are nested (Change Settings in Web Links, and Post As in Entry).

I think Submit is fine where it is. However, the checkfriends indicator might need some work; right now there's no good way to see if it's enabled or disabled if you're colorblind. I'd suggest actually changing the picture for each of the three states.
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[User Picture]From: synestine
2002-12-23 01:58 pm (UTC)

Agreed

I agree. LogJam doesn't deal with Files. It deals with Entries, Journals, etc.

However, I would put "About LogJam" at the top of the LogJam menu, not the bottom. I would keep Quit at the bottom of that menu.

I would also have New/Open/Save under the Entry menu along with Submit, Post As, etc.

As for Settings, honestly I'm not sure where those should go. It would make sense to me to put that either under the LogJam menu however I could also conceive of it being under Tools. Also, I disagree with the order of things under the Tools menu you use. I personally have NEVER used the Poll Creator and even some of the LJ addicts I know have only used it a handful of times. What I (And others I've talked to and read) use most is Make Link (Specifically LJ CUT), then Insert File (For inserting entries we've written while offline).
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From: piman
2002-12-23 05:18 pm (UTC)

Re: Agreed

Okay, I can see Log In / About LogJam / Quit, but Log In IMO should be first.

Eh, okay. I don't use any of them enough to comment, really; I said poll first because it has the most onerous syntax; I do all my lj-cuts by hand, and do all my offline entries as separate backdated entries. But whatever works for the people who actually use those tools. :)
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[User Picture]From: synestine
2002-12-23 05:32 pm (UTC)

Re: Agreed

I have LogJam set to auto log me in so I never use Log In anyway. I actually don't mind the way the current LogJam does it (About, Preferences, Log Out (I assume that turns into a Log In if you're not already logged in), Quit). But I'm just trying to come up with some kind of stable menu layout too. I was never a big fan of Microsoft's "Active Menu" stuff that they started right after Windows 98. You know what I'm talking about, where menu items that aren't used often disappear from menus, basically rearranging them. I always liked having things in the same spot grouped logically so I could find them quickly and easily.

I do most of my LJ Cuts manually, but that's because I have trouble finding a program that does them well. What I'd like is to highlight the text I want to cut, then click something like Edit | Make Cut Or Tooks | Make Link at which point it would bring up another window with the highlighted text in a text input box and a name field above so I can type in the text for the LJ Cut. That would seem the most user friendly to me.
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[User Picture]From: sndchsr
2002-12-23 11:40 pm (UTC)

A Different Comment

I'm glad that my timing on this is appropriate. I just downloaded and compiled 4.0.1 and was severely disappointed with the interface. Personally I liked the old versions where the metadata was tucked away until it was added from the popup button.

Could we have something like that back? Maybe put them as toggles on a menu of their own? (I can't think of a good name for the menu right now...)

The conversation about the interface is pretty good.

I would make a comment about the menu structure though: as much as possible I would keep it flat. (IE, a single menu level - not a lot of sub-menus.) The reason I say this is it's much easier for the user if they don't have to search around too much.

Also, as a suggestion for those that were concerned about being able to quickly access items: you can always add your own hotkeys / accelerators by adding

gtk-can-change-accels=1

To your .gtkrc-2.0 file. :)
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[User Picture]From: sndchsr
2002-12-25 11:54 pm (UTC)

Re: A Different Comment

Noticed after I posted this comment... If you have the gtk-can-change-accels turned on, LogJam allows changing them, however they only stay active for the current session. I don't know if there is something that you would have to do in the LogJam code to make these changes persistent across sessions... Although it is something that I would like to see if possible...:)
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[User Picture]From: substitute
2002-12-25 02:20 pm (UTC)

bug in CVS version

It appears on current checkout that the subject automatically becomes the mood also.

Let me know if you need more info.
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From: evan
2002-12-25 05:26 pm (UTC)

Re: bug in CVS version

Hm, I saw that too. Thanks... I'll get to it when I'm done with Christmas.
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[User Picture]From: abiku
2002-12-27 02:46 pm (UTC)

Re: bug in CVS version

Yeah, I'm having that problem, too.

I'm also having another problem -- after submitting my entry, the Entry portion of the window clears itself, but the metadata fields don't. (The subject, mood, and music fields all retain whatever values they had when I submitted my post.)
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From: piman
2002-12-29 12:28 pm (UTC)

Re: bug in CVS version

There's a "Keep metadata fields after posting" option - do you have that selected?
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[User Picture]From: abiku
2003-01-06 11:20 am (UTC)

Re: bug in CVS version

Hooray for delayed responses to comments! (I suck...)

I just double-checked (and even toggled the option) and it's still saving the metadata after the post, even though the interface says the option is disabled/unchecked.
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From: evan
2003-01-18 01:50 pm (UTC)

Re: bug in CVS version

Fixed in CVS, I think. Sorry for the delay.
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From: evan
2003-01-18 01:50 pm (UTC)

Re: bug in CVS version

Fixed in CVS, I think. Sorry for the delay.
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[User Picture]From: substitute
2003-01-19 10:37 am (UTC)

Re: bug in CVS version

That's fixed! Now, however, I can't choose my picture. I get my default picture no matter which one I choose.
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[User Picture]From: abiku
2003-01-20 08:35 am (UTC)

Re: bug in CVS version

I'm also having that same problem, although all of the other bugs I'd run into in previous CVS versinos have been fixed.
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[User Picture]From: jhf
2003-01-02 01:41 am (UTC)
Is there a chance the Accelerator key for "Entry" could be changed to something besides "E" so I can use Ctrl-E to jump to the end of a line with 'gtk-key-theme-name = "Emacs"'?
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From: evan
2003-01-02 01:26 pm (UTC)
Isn't it alt+e for the menu?
(BTW, I updated this page with some new findings on emacs-style keybindings.)
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From: foreverxtrue
2003-01-05 06:52 am (UTC)

prob w/Web Links

Hiya,

With Logjam 4.01 on RH 8.092 and Mozila 1.2.1 I'm finding that none of the Web links work. Mozilla will say "The URL is not valid and cannot be loaded", then open Mozilla with the URL in quotes and a blank screen. Is this just my setup or did something change in Mozilla or what?

Jamund
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From: evan
2003-01-05 11:44 am (UTC)

Re: prob w/Web Links

Yeah, Ari found that bug a few weeks ago and I fixed it in CVS: link.

You need to change your browser command:
It currently is mozilla -remote 'openURL("%s", new-window)' || mozilla "%s"
and you should change it to mozilla -remote 'openURL(%s, new-window)' || mozilla %s
(That is, remove the quotes around both of the %s-es.)
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