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release? [Jun. 30th, 2002|01:45 pm]
LogJam
logjam
[evan]
I'm a firm believer in the "release early, release often" style of design but I don't want to release something that doesn't work (see also: Netscape 6). I'm having difficulty deciding which features are a must before 4.0 and which can wait for, uh, 4.1.

compwiz provided the inspiration for following list, and my comments are in italics.

  • Calendar view for past entries
  • Working friend groups
  • The ability to edit and delete past entries without actually posting a new one instead. buttons that should be on the bottom when editing a past entry: Cancel, Delete, Save Entry
    CVS commit as of five minutes ago is most of the way there.
  • The whole past entries interface is not clean at all.. e.g. when a past entry has any kind of metadata, the Metadata menu isn't updated to check off the fields which have been enabled.
    I have a completely rewritten metadata interface which is much nicer, but is only about 50% done.

This is stuff that would be nice, but not desperately needed:

  • When clicking on the checkfriends button, it should be able to execute a command or open the friends page in the configured browser.
    I thought it did this? Gaal?
  • Friend colors
    I'm pretty sure there's a bug in GTK preventing this, but I need to make a test case to prove it.
  • Support the new "don't get comment e-mail" setting, if possible
  • everything needs to be cleaned up or gotten rid of if it doesn't serve any purpose, e.g. in the Manager
    Manager will probably go in the final version, too. I have some different ideas about how to do this, now... I think the offline entries can (optionally) be displayed along the left side of the window (like the folders in Outlook). I have a half-completed "Drafts" folder implementation here, too.
  • changes-to-friends feature (like Semagic)
What do you think? What is needed for a preliminary release and what can wait?
I'll update this post with your ideas.
LinkReply

Comments:
[User Picture]From: jenn
2002-06-30 01:52 pm (UTC)
IT NEEDS MORE PR0N THX.
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From: compwiz
2002-06-30 02:11 pm (UTC)
yes plz
k thx bie
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From: geekosaur
2002-06-30 02:16 pm (UTC)
Probably not for the next release, but...

I'd like to see Unicode support someday. Also, a changes-to-friends feature. (Both ideas stolen from Semagic...)
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From: evan
2002-06-30 02:22 pm (UTC)

Unicode support already works well. See gaal for some Hebrew.

I'll add that to the list.
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From: geekosaur
2002-07-01 09:12 am (UTC)

I hadn't actually been running the code from CVS... looks like it works. Woo.
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[User Picture]From: gaal
2002-07-01 12:40 am (UTC)
Also, LogJam had Unicode before Semagic, very likely. At least, it was almost certainly the first client to support bidirectional Hebrew, thanks to GTK+ 2.0 and Pango.
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[User Picture]From: erebrandir
2002-06-30 03:23 pm (UTC)
I don't know if this is a problem for everybody, or just for me, but I run LogJam on a 800x600 display (my laptop), and I have access to post in about fifty journals (i.e. I'm a member of that many communities). When I go to the Journal -> Post As menu, only the first thirty will show up on the screen, and there appears to be no way to scroll through them. That makes LogJam pretty much unusable if I happen to want to post in one of last twenty or so journals on the list. So, perhaps a menu that will cascade to show more items than will fit on the screen would be nice to have.
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[User Picture]From: bradfitz
2002-06-30 03:52 pm (UTC)
Is it Evan's fault that GTK+ 2.0 is still behind what MacOS widgets did like 15 years ago?

:P
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From: evan
2002-06-30 04:17 pm (UTC)
Actually! GTK2 fixes that! But yeah, Gtk1.2 has that problem. I can't hit all my communities on my 1280x960 screen, even.
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From: compwiz
2002-06-30 06:40 pm (UTC)
I strongly dislike GTK2's IE-ish way of scrolling long menus. It should wrap over to extra columns, not scroll.. scrolling is terribly inefficient when there's no scrollbar.
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[User Picture]From: erebrandir
2002-06-30 10:09 pm (UTC)
Nope.

I figured it was probably a problem with GTK, but I'm more or less GTK-illiterate, so I didn't know for sure. I just thought I'd ask.
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[User Picture]From: gaal
2002-06-30 09:36 pm (UTC)
When clicking on the checkfriends button, it should be able to execute a command or open the friends page in the configured browser.

Yes, it's already there. You need to double-click on the indicator, though. :)
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From: compwiz
2002-07-11 04:27 pm (UTC)
Hm, that doesn't seem to be documented anywhere (perhaps put it in the tooltip or some kind of help?), and it's not in the right-click menu (hint, hint).
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[User Picture]From: gaal
2002-07-11 11:05 pm (UTC)

Well, there is that rather long-winded help text you get the first time you (left) click on the indicator. It's documented there. But after Evan pointed this out I realized that's not going to help much. Hell, it was my own idea to allow sending that help dialog away for good, I should have known better.

So: expect a patch soon. :)
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From: evan
2002-07-11 11:24 pm (UTC)
Haha! I didn't even notice that he said it isn't documented "anywhere"-- users never do read the dialogs. :)
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From: compwiz
2002-07-11 11:36 pm (UTC)

Re:

Heh, I loved the part in that article about the menu dragging & Taskbar moving. It was one of the fundamental design flaws in Windows 9x and it too them until Windows XP that people DON'T WANT TO DRAG THE FUCKING START MENU AROUND THE SCREEN. You have no idea how many times people have actually asked me how to move the damn things back to where they were in the first place, because they don't realize they dragged it away.
</rant>

Also, the part about the "tabbed" Mac control panel is very true. If a settings dialog has tabs which scroll off the screen somehow (Sawfish did this in the latest version for GNOME2), it loses its usefulness factor exponentially. However, I tend not to agree with the article about tabbed interfaces as a whole - very many Windows users I talk to most of the time don't realize there are tabs on a window in the first place. I say to them "click the Appearance tab" and it takes them a minute to figure out what I'm talking about, especally since the word "tab" doesn't seem to regster.

But anyway, I digress. The part about more words losing over just plain good UI design is almost always true, especially in this case. Normally you wouldn't double-click on something that looks like a button (e.g. the checkfriends icon). In fact, double-clicking is probably the most unintutive input method ever invented. It's not even close to obvious. At least if you make something double-clickable while it has a context menu, do something like put the same action in the context menu but make that text bold (e.g. like most Windows programs do if they put a little icon in the taskbar).
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From: compwiz
2002-07-11 04:31 pm (UTC)
Also, the "revert to primary journal" is not working in 3.1-cvs.
And when deleting/posting an entry, everything should be reset to normal, e.g. no metadata/entry, and the button should change back to Submit.
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From: evan
2002-07-11 04:55 pm (UTC)
Nothing really works right now as it's all in flux.
New meta coming in soon though I think you'll hate it. :p
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From: compwiz
2002-07-11 04:56 pm (UTC)

Re:

:/
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From: compwiz
2002-07-12 10:47 am (UTC)
Ack, it's huge.. and there's no way to turn it off. Also, the Music and Comments could probably go on one line.
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From: evan
2002-07-12 08:14 pm (UTC)
I put music on its own line because it's usually longer than, say, mood (or even subject).

I'm not sure how I feel about grouping things just because they fit, either... one option I was considering is putting the option menus all in a line, but Comments and Picture aren't really the "same" sort of menu.
And then some people have picture keywords that are really long and that breaks everything too... yuk.

If you can convince me why something else is better, I'll do it. I think turning each option on and off is stupid, just more clicks to get at what you want and you're not losing that much screen space (consider the toolbar present in most apps, or the URL bar in a web browser).
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