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LogJam

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design considerations [Jul. 29th, 2001|02:46 pm]
LogJam
logjam
[evan]
Poll #2665 LogJam and libraries

Do you / would you use the GNOME integration of LogJam?

Yes.
43(50.0%)
No, I don't use GNOME, and I don't intend to.
36(41.9%)
Other
7(8.1%)

How would you feel about LogJam using gtkhtml (an HTML widget for GTK) for displaying previews of journal posts and viewing other (non-LiveJournal) journals?

Ick, not another library dependency!
13(15.1%)
I don't really care, but I wouldn't use it-- browsing functionality belongs in the web browser.
22(25.6%)
That would be neat.
51(59.3%)

How should gtkhtml be supported with respect to GNOME?

Two targets: GNOME+all fancy features, and GTK+no fancy features.
30(36.6%)
Two targets: everything minus GNOME, and everything including GNOME.
43(52.4%)
Some weird way of turning different libraries off and on (unlikely to be implemented, 'cause it's a lot of work).
9(11.0%)

How about libxml (aka gnome-xml)? (This is probably already decided, because we need to be able to export journals.)

Ick, not another library dependency!
15(18.8%)
That would be neat.
65(81.2%)
LinkReply

Comments:
From: compwiz
2001-07-29 02:54 pm (UTC)
If you're going to put in libxml and gtkhtml support, at least put compile-time options like --disable-libxml and --disable-gtkhtml, and don't require them for normal program usage. Those features would definitely be useful, though.
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[User Picture]From: decklin
2001-07-29 03:08 pm (UTC)
I should clarify that I said "Ick" for the second question, but because of reason for the next answer: "browsing functionality belongs in the web browser." Library dependencies are not bad; programs that try to do too many things are.

I can see LogJam evolving to read mail, just like that law about bloated programs... first we'll want to read LJ posts, then we'll want to be able to reply to them from within the client, then we'll want to get notification of those replies... voila! an email reader! ;-)

However, I wouldn't be against a checkfriends feature (and I thought about writing it myself before I realized it would be much easier to do in Perl).

Also, I'm not really sure what "fancy features" means in the third question. Are they something that can't be handled individually through autoconf?
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[User Picture]From: jtunison
2001-07-29 04:56 pm (UTC)
"Browsing functionality belongs in the web browser." I agree. The idea isn't too rewrite a complete browser, just to display a single web page. If you clicked any links, up would pop a web browser. No forward. No back. No location toolbar.

It would let you keep track of all of your journals in one place, and would save the web from reloading again and again by keeping track of checksums for non-LJ journals, and checkfriends for LJ.

You might think of it as a "friends" view for the entire world wide web.







(The gui needs some work yet, I know.)

So that's the reasoning behind gtkhtml. I agree it should go in with an autoconf option, the question is whether we should support every permutation of libraries as an option. Doing so is not only a major pain in the ass, it also litters the code with ifdefs. So the idea is to pick some "target platforms" and support them.
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From: compwiz
2001-07-29 05:04 pm (UTC)
Erm. When I was thinking gtkhtml, I wasn't quite thinking of it that way.. The UI looks more bloated than an actual browser.
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[User Picture]From: jtunison
2001-07-29 05:10 pm (UTC)
I don't much like the gui either, I've been thinking of a good way to keep the functionality but have a better presentation.

Any ideas for a better display? (glade mockups gladly accepted.)
(Reply) (Parent) (Thread)
From: compwiz
2001-07-29 05:39 pm (UTC)
Hm. well if it's just to preview a journal entry, a whole browser-type interface isn't necessary at all. maybe just either a pop-up window or a replacement of the current text box with the gtkhtml mockup of it.. nothing fancy, no need to see the whole livejournal friends page.
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[User Picture]From: jtunison
2001-07-29 06:34 pm (UTC)
The idea is for the interface be user configurable. For instance, the interface could look exactly the same as the original logjam interface. Or you could add a view for your uncle bob who just posts to his html website. Or a view to look at your own journal. Or add an advogato journal entry tab.

Here is an example of the xml file that produced the above screenshots:

<?xml version="1.0"?>
<LogJam>
<LiveJournal target_journal="">
<Journal username="jtunison" password="" server="http://www.livejournal.com/">
<Log name="John's Kick Ass Journal" url="http://www.livejournal.com/users/jtunison"/>
</Journal>
</LiveJournal>
<LiveJournal target_journal="">
<Journal username="jtunison" password="" server="http://www.livejournal.com/">
<Log name="Alter-ego Journal" url=""/>
</Journal>
</LiveJournal>
<Log name="Alan Cox" url="http://www.linux.org.uk/diary/"/>
<Log name="Telsa" url="http://www.linux.org.uk/~telsa/Diary/diary.html"/>
<Log name="Michael Meeks" url="http://www.gnome.org/~michael/"/>
<Log name="Austin LJ Community" url="http://www.livejournal.com/users/austincommunity"/>
</LogJam>

The xml file for the current gui would just be:

<?xml version="1.0"?>
<LogJam>
<LiveJournal target_journal="">
<Journal username="jtunison" password="" server="http://www.livejournal.com/">
<Log name="John's Kick Ass Journal" url="http://www.livejournal.com/users/jtunison"/>
</Journal>
</LiveJournal>
</LogJam>

I was more asking about the tab display. There's a better way to display the information, I just don't know what it is.
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[User Picture]From: jace
2001-08-03 05:09 am (UTC)
Do you have a snapshot available for download? I want to figure out how integration into Evolution works, and I'm running a binary RPM release that I can't afford to download the source for (dialup link).
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[User Picture]From: jtunison
2001-08-04 08:55 am (UTC)

no

Sorry.

You won't be able to "figure out how integration into Evolution works" without looking at the source, anyway.

When it stabilizes, there'll be binaries. It's still undergoing massive changes.
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[User Picture]From: foobar
2001-07-29 03:16 pm (UTC)
Instead of linking in another library, couldn't it just pass the html along to the gnome http-handler or whatever it's called? You can set a default browser in gnome, why not use it? Or does it require gtkhtml just to pass it along?
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From: evan
2001-08-01 05:05 pm (UTC)
LogJam does use gnome's http handler, but John is integrating some browsing support directly into LogJam.
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[User Picture]From: jtunison
2001-07-29 04:24 pm (UTC)

change for your nickel

I assumed for the purposes of this survey that s/GNOME/gnome-libs/. gnome-xml is also a part of the current GNOME distribution, as is gtkhtml.

In a brazen attempt to sway the vote, my personal feeling it that the targets should be:

- minimalist: gtk + libcurl + libxml
- regular: gnome1.4 + libcurl

Technically, you could cast the division of libraries any which way. But I think the political camps lie along these lines -- minimalist and "will-install-another-library-for-cool-features".
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From: piman
2001-07-29 05:47 pm (UTC)

Re: change for your nickel

I agree. libxml is big outside GNOME already in many cases, and it's small (650k or so).

Although previewing with GtkHTML might be neat, it doesn't provide enough CSS support to render any decent split between style and content, and you'd need to download the user's style to do it right, anyway. I say put it in (little to no bloat, anyway; I'll never understand why using more libraries is bloat), but don't expect it to be very useful.
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From: hajime
2001-07-30 01:59 am (UTC)

Another opinion.

There's two main issues I'd like to touch on here: firstly, my response to the first question, and secondly, the idea of previewing entries.

I responded "other" to the first question because I'd like to be able to use a logjam docklet, like the little Frank docklet that's been kicking around for ages, but IceWM doesn't support the window hints on those, so I can't really use GNOME docklets yet. If / when IceWM supports them, or I make a switch to a window manager that does, that'll probably be the extent that I'll use GNOME support. I don't really have a need for most of the GNOME desktop stuff. (I'm probably mincing words here, don't jump on me!)

With respect to previewing entries, I'm not really sure. Would it be acceptable to write out to a temporary file of some sort and invoke the default browser on it? I feel more comfortable doing web stuff in a browser, and I think I'd rarely preview an entry if I didn't have my browser running.

Mmm, and I like the idea of a sort of GTK / GNOME split, with one only requiring a few libs and things to work, and the other one using the full power of whatever libs are available.

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