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rename? [May. 5th, 2001|02:23 pm]
LogJam
logjam
[evan]
Alan is working on making LiveJournal usable for his business, and notes:
no fucking way can i tell them to download "loserjabber"
He has a very good point. :)

As LiveJournal becomes more and more popular, LoserJabber also needs to become more professional.

(Another more minor consideration is that the name "LoserJabber" misleads people into thinking it's a Jabber client. In fact, many of the first LoserJabber users downloaded it because of that.)

With this in mind, we propose:
LoserJabber needs a new name.
Alan suggested "LiveJournal", but I have two other considerations:
  • The name conficts with other LiveJournal clients. There are Perl clients, Tk clients, and probably a Qt client (someday); I'd hate to grab the "obvious" name.
  • I planned, at one time, to support other journaling systems, such as Advogato.

Now that I'm officially working for LiveJournal, I do have a bit of official-ness behind me, which means that I could name it "LiveJournal", and because Brad's paying me, I probably shouldn't be planning support for other systems, so maybe those considerations should not be... uhm, considered. :)
Also, the Win32 client I've been working on is just named "LiveJournal" (because it's very official; not much competition in the Win32 world). Then, they'd be nice and similar.

So, in true LiveJournal / open source fashion, I ask you, the user: Should I rename LoserJabber? If so, what to?
Poll #734 LoserJabber rename

Should LoserJabber be renamed?

Definitely.
38(67.9%)
Screw these guys! LoserJabber should remain LoserJabber!
18(32.1%)

(If it should be changed:) What should the new name be?

LiveJournal
13(30.2%)
Something like "GLiveJournal" or "gtk_lj".
13(30.2%)
Not sure.
5(11.6%)
Other.
12(27.9%)

If "Other", please suggest something. (Feel free to suggest it in a comment, instead.)


Or, just discuss it in the comments. I'd tell you what I'm thinking, but I honestly can't decide... though I think it should be renamed.
LinkReply

Comments:
From: compwiz
2001-05-05 02:24 pm (UTC)
Heh. too bad you can't change polls later, the only choice for a name change is "definitely." :)
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From: evan
2001-05-05 02:34 pm (UTC)
Yay for having database access! (I fixed it.)
(Reply) (Parent) (Thread)
[User Picture]From: czircon
2001-05-05 02:29 pm (UTC)
To me, the name LoserJabber is one of its biggest attractions. It shows that it doesn't take itself too seriously. If I were choosing between two clients with identical features, but one was named LoserJabber and the other was named LiveJournal or something else along those lines, I would certainly have to go with LoserJabber. Q.E.D. And any name beginning with GTK/gnome, etc. is a turnoff.
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From: evan
2001-05-05 02:30 pm (UTC)
Oops. I really meant for there to be a "no" option to the first question. I must've made a typo. :(
(Reply) (Thread)
From: evan
2001-05-05 02:34 pm (UTC)
There, I fixed it.
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[User Picture]From: jnala
2001-05-05 02:34 pm (UTC)

By analogy with the Windows client name...

The Windows client binary is LiveJournal.exe, is referred to as "the Windows client" when a specific name is needed, and is referred to as "lj_win32" when a concise specific name is needed (for the community name, for instance).

By analogy, I would name the Gtk client binary "livejournal" (Unix programs are usually lowercase), call it "the Gtk client" or "the Unix client" when a specific name is needed, and refer to it as "lj_gtk" when a concise specific name is needed (for the community name, for instance).

For most Unix users, the Gtk client is going to be the program they use to access LiveJournal, so naming it "glivejournal" or "gtk_lj" will just add unnecessary confusion.

If you support other systems later, you can make another client release and call it "gtk_advogato" or whatever. For ease of setup and configuration you'll want separate releases for the separate systems anyway.

(Reply) (Thread)
From: piman
2001-05-05 02:52 pm (UTC)

Re: By analogy with the Windows client name...

UNIX users also like having different programs to do the same thing for different environments, 'livejournal' is pretty ambiguous. I don't have a program called "web browser" or "email", and programs with generic names are almost invariably for terminals (mail, ftp, find, etc).

Also, something called 'livejournal' makes me think I'm running the server.

And I guarantee if someone writes a KDE/Qt client for LiveJournal, LoserJabber will stop being the program being used.
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From: billemon
2001-05-05 02:38 pm (UTC)
I think if you must rename it, then "LinLJ" (as I've already voted for :) would be a good start, and maybe "WinLJ" for Losedows.
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From: piman
2001-05-05 02:54 pm (UTC)
What about all the other UNIX users (or any platform that can run GTK, really)? And for that matter, what happens when Linux goes away?

Naming a program after an operating system is being horribly shortsighted.
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[User Picture]From: bradfitz
2001-05-05 03:08 pm (UTC)
I voted for renaming, and to "LiveJournal Client".

glivejournal would be dumb.

But I don't like "livejournal" because then it'll go in Debian/FreeBSD and you'll steal my name I want to package the LiveJournal server as. :)

What's better:

livejournal-client and livejournal ?
livejournal and livejournal-server ?
livejournal-client and livejournal-server ?



(Reply) (Thread)
From: hajime
2001-05-05 03:45 pm (UTC)
I like the idea of livejournal-client/livejournal-server. A bit more verbose, but it just seems more like The Right Way.
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[User Picture]From: dormando
2001-05-05 04:24 pm (UTC)
As long as you have some compile-time easter egg to force it to call itself "LoserJabber" I don't care what you name it :)
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[User Picture]From: jhf
2001-05-05 08:41 pm (UTC)
It's useless really, but I like the idea of a easter egg that remembers loserjabber, if not necessarily as a compile-time option. Kind of like the Mozilla/Navigator thing (before mozilla.org).

For the same reason, I definitely like glj for the client name.
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[User Picture]From: beldurnik
2001-05-05 04:30 pm (UTC)
I just think that if it is changed it should not be changed too much. If the name needs to be cleaned up then it should be xlj. Well for X LooserJabber. But we don't have to tell those proffesionals that that is exactly what it stands for.
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From: evan
2001-05-05 04:38 pm (UTC)
LoserJabber works from the console, too.

loserjabbber --help
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From: piman
2001-05-05 11:33 pm (UTC)
As LiveJournal becomes more and more popular, LoserJabber also needs to become more professional.

I would question this assumption. It's your client, and obviously you choose the name. But really, what would the point of changing it be? I mean, how do we explain Frank as "professional"? Even Netscape didn't change Mozilla to "Netscape Browser" when they made it professional; calling it "LiveJournal Client" seems to say "Look, we're the only client!" and it's also boring as hell.
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[User Picture]From: fonebone
2001-05-06 12:06 am (UTC)
My sentiments exactly.
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[User Picture]From: patrick
2001-05-06 02:48 am (UTC)
well, as much as i like the name loserjabber, i agree that it should be changed. not because of professionalism or whatever, but more because of the confusing of it being a jabber client (which as happened several times if i remember correctly).

i think it should be something along the lines of livejournal-gtk. that would prevent problems with other unix clients (perl, qt, etc) but also leave name space for the server as well.
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From: billemon
2001-05-06 07:34 am (UTC)
The namespace thing is important. Obviously there needs to be a sensible way of distributing package, eventually, too; I might have a go at building RPMs at some point, but as I'm running RH7.1 with some Raw Hide updates, I might have trouble building packages that's run on older systems :(

I think one of the important things will be to make a common packages with things like images in, and maybe the styles and stuff. Then they can be updated independently from the server code. There again the styles could be too dynamic to distribute sensibly as a package *shrug* I hope a good solution emerges.

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From: headcase
2001-05-06 10:59 am (UTC)

not entirely true....

Actually I downloaded it cause I thought I could update diaryland (I think that's the one I used, twice). When it turned out it was for livejournal I just switched to lj.

ps. I think you should stick w/ loserjabber, after all the Gimp never changed names and a lot of *nix apps have weird 'non-corporate' names - anyone using linux/unix/whatever is used to installing things w/ odd names. If you do decide to switch, I think you should just mess with people and call it WinLiveJournal or something.
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[User Picture]From: jnala
2001-05-06 08:07 pm (UTC)
So, in true LiveJournal / open source fashion, I ask you, the user

No, the true open source fashion would be to do whatever you want, after all, you're writing the code. :-) Brad should probably have some input given that he's payin' tha $$$.

Personally, I've always disliked the LoserJabber name, both because of confusion with Jabber and because it sounds like a dis on LJ users. It just wasn't a showstopper until the business thing came up.

But then, I don't like the "because you like to think someone cares" slogan either. Shrug...
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